bring in every year and we could cut the entire military, entire pentagon and not pay one dime of federal anything and still lose money. we have to deal with these entitlements. with the fraud, with the entitlements as a whole, but no one in d.c. is willing to do that. no one, it's pathetic. >> brenda: gary b, that's the question here, what incentives do the people have who are running this program have to get in and cut this fraud? >> exactly, brenda. look, fraud goes on in private sector, public sector, but here is the problem. in private sector, if so much fraud and thiefery goes on and the taxpayer, and you point out the core problem. in the public sector, there's he no incentive for fraud to go away. people are paid on a bottom line, don't lose their dime if there's more fraud. the only incentive for the bubble sector, if you're a medicare or medicaid government employee is to grow your power base. make it even bigger. that's why, toby is right, it's probably a factor of 10 to 20, to maybe 50. how much fraud is actually going on. probably in the billions of dollars. no one
